Guided Psilocybin Journeys In Nature Support Therapy With Eric Inman, MA

I talk with Eric Inman about why nature changes us, how psilocybin-assisted psychotherapy can support deep healing, and why most “symptoms” make more sense when you look at disconnection. We break down what safe facilitation looks like, what integration really requires, and why the fear of losing control is often the very pattern that keeps us stuck. 

Learn about: 

• Eric’s path from outdoor life to eco-psychology and therapy 
• Why wilderness settings shift perspective, empathy, and self-awareness 
• The ego versus soul frame and the felt experience of oneness 
• What people mean by a vision quest and what to expect 
• Psilocybin therapy benefits for depression, anxiety, trauma, addiction, grief and loss 
• How psilocybin quiets the default mode network and opens neuroplasticity 
• Microdosing versus macrodosing and why intention matters 
• Set and setting, screening, and reducing the risk of a bad trip 
• Preparation, music, and integration as the real container for change 
• Evolve Wild’s model for post-journey integration in nature 
• Common barriers like fear, cost, time, and discomfort outdoors 

Visit evolvewild.com or Youtube Evolve Wild 

This episode contains information on psilocybin as a treatment which is not legal in all States for treatment except Oregon and Colorado in the USA. Use should always be with a trained and licensed facilitator. For ages 21+

Transcript

Sabrina Duong (00:44)
welcome to the podcast, What Would Sabrina Say? I'm your host and licensed clinical social worker, Sabrina Dong. Today with me I have, an amazing guest, Eric Inman, who is trained not only in therapy, but also the use of psilocybin and nature. How amazing to combine all those to support clients. Thanks so much, Eric, for joining me today to talk about nature in in psilocybin and and the benefits in in psychotherapy.

Eric Inman (01:16)
Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Sabrina Duong (01:18)
 I wondering if you could talk a bit about yourself, what led you to this journey. 
Eric Inman (01:23)
I mean it's been a long it's been a long journey. There's several components of it. One the nature piece, two the psychology piece, and three the outdoors piece. And they all kind of have their own their own pathways that combined for this. I've been I've been outdoors a lot my life and then I got really into skiing in my teens and that was. Like the nineties when when global warming first started making real headlines and everything. And I'm just kind of like, Why, why don't we not do that? Why don't we stop? I started exploring alternative energies and I found out we have them and we're just choosing not to use them. We're just choosing this path. And so that was I was like, Well it's a psychology thing.  And I started getting the psychology also between high school college, I went to I went to a phish show and and had a really powerful experience on psychedelics, ⁓ what I now know to be a mystical experience after my training in psilocybin ⁓ facilitation. But I had no idea what it was then.

Eric Inman (02:31)
And traditional psychol I went to study psychology in college and they were kind of like if you have these hallucinations or delusions or these kinds of things, you're crazy. You're institutionalized in the nineties, you know. This wasn't something really recognized outside of a few schools. So I studied psychology just to kind of understand why people are making these choices. I went to West Virginia University and I got into river guiding, raft guiding, and that's when I really started guiding other people. Down rivers, and it was just a gorgeous experience. It was the new river, and just every day on this river, and it's one of the oldest rivers in the world. And so every day I would go by this canyon that was carved through just hundreds of millions of layers of rocks, and just seeing this you know this this really different perspective on time, you know, hundreds of millions of years and kind of what we're doing now and how, our time is just this little lair in this massive canyon, you know? And ⁓ that started to change just my perspective on things and living in a tent for the summer, and then after I graduated I worked in residential. ⁓ it was an interesting experience.

And then when I moved to Oregon, I was able to combine rafting and psychology and work in wilderness therapy. And what the kids went through in that was so different than what they went through in the residential program. And it was pretty obvious that the outdoor component had so much of an effect on just the entire culture and the way that was so different than what they went through in the residence. Pretty obvious that the that the outdoor component. Just the entire culture ⁓ and the way that people showed up and the way that people related to each other and the way that they related to the program.
People showed up and the way that people related to each other and the way that they related to the program. And they you know, and even even the therapists and everyone kinda changed in that program. And I was like, everyone really could use something like this, not just troubled kids. ⁓ but at the same time they shut down. And it was because there there's no funding for this. it's not covered by insurance. At the same time they shut down. And then when I came back from Japan, I got into graduate school for school psychology. And they ⁓ they were very kind of categorical that the classification, the diagnoses They're diagnosing the kids. And it was just so interesting seeing it from that perspective of all this stuff is going on in the kids' life and they were diagnosing the kids and it was just so of seeing it from that perspective like all this stuff is going on in the kids' life and they're you know just trying to focus in on well this is you know this is eighty what's ADHD and what's this and that it's like kids weren't in a good situation or they just kind of didn't fit in the program and rather than exploring their potential and what they want to do it was more you  know, just trying to focus in on, well this is, you know, this is AD what's ADHD and what's this and that. And it's like the kids weren't in a good situation or they just kind of didn't fit in the program. And rather than exploring their potential and what they want to do, it was more about getting them to be good in s math, science and English, You know, is the the whole school system was funded on that. And at the same time  getting them to be good in s math science You know, the the whole school system was funded on that. And at the same time there was a intro to intro to lifespan development models and I found Bill Plotkin's work, Nature in the Human Soul, which offered a developmental model from the ego psychology perspective. And it's really the first lifespan development model that made sense to me 


I didn't really have one before, and that did for and it was from an eco you know, nature-based perspective. I I felt everything was too cultural, culturally influenced and socioeconomically influenced. So that kind of cut through all that. in that there was the idea that in order like we go through the first few stages naturally, but at some point we have to go on an intentional journey based perspective I felt everything was too know, culturally influenced and socioeconomically influenced. that that kind of cut through all that. And in that there was the idea that in order like we go through the first few stages naturally, but at some point we have to go on an intentional and that changes the way that  people see the world and themselves and they learn what their gift is and what they what they can bring to culture and connection with everything and like all these things that made sense during that during that fish show, during that mystical experience that I had and a few experiences since, but no one ever really addressed before, especially in such detail and that changes the way that people see the world and themselves and they learn what their gift is and what they what they can bring to culture and connection with everything and like all these things that made sense during that during that phishhood, during that mystical experience that I had and a few experiences since, but no one ever really addressed before, especially in such detail.

And so I started to go from that and I started to explore from that perspective and that was very different than the school psychology perspective and there was a split there that happens from that perspective. And that was very different than the school psychology perspective. And there was a split there that happens in the graduate program. Fortunately, they did have an eco-psychology certificate and a cultural and psychological studies degree. And I was able to combine them and put you know, pursue that path, combine them and study. To that path. Ever since then I've kind of been doing my own thing. and I have explored the Vision Quest. I worked with Animus Valley and Bill Plotkin for a little bit for a year long Soulcraft immersion, but I've really been also interested in ⁓ bringing plant medicines into the whole picture, ⁓ into the nature experience. I feel like they really they they do align and they help with these moments of different awareness.

Since then I've kind of been doing my own thing. interested in bringing plant medicines into the whole picture, into the nature experience. Different awareness.
So yeah, that's kind of been my course and I've been more trying to get really ⁓ fun experiences, but still powerful, something that people can speak to or people can people who have no familiarity with this can kind of sign up for. A vision quest is like ten days in the woods, three not eating or three not in community, four not, you know, while they're not eating, and that's that's a big ask for a lot of people.

Sabrina Duong  (07:51)

With your own mystical journey led to your Masters of Arts in in culture and psychological studies. So exploring more about psychology and combining it with with nature and echo psychology. So not just about culture as human beings, but how we can act. I think sometimes we forget we're mammals, we're not meant to be in these cement blocks of space, right? And how therapeutic accessing, nature and being more in tune with it in ourselves can really help us heal and ⁓ help us maybe go deeper into things.

Eric Inman (08:37)
We are a technological and societal species. but we also need to balance that with with our connection with nature, right? We can't we're we're not doing such a great job of running the show. we've gotta have that grounding, that wisdom that comes from something larger than us. And we are an extremely powerful. We we're the most ⁓ what we're a species that has the ability to alter the ecosystems. And if we do it with only our interests in mind, then we create imbalance. And we've been doing that for a long time. And at this point it's really starting to accumulate, and we're we're looking at the consequences of that of species that has the ability to alter the ecosystems and the long-term consequences of those actions kind of really coming up on us. And we I believe we really have to start ⁓ taking our position with more awareness of the responsibility that comes with that and really working with nature to ⁓ be more mindful about how we about our presence on this planet. and that's the larger picture Taking our position Yeah to be more mindful about how we about picture culturally and both and personally ⁓ each person kind of going through that. The part of the the mystical experience is the recognition of the connection to the oneness of everything. And it's at that point it's not so much a concept but something that is vivid in in people's experience and it also
connection to the oneness of everything and it's at that point it's not so much a concept but something that is vivid in in people's experience and it also feels fantastic right it's just this it's an an amazing feeling and so people love being there and that that what that meet and like that state and just you know a feels fantastic, right? It's just this it's an an amazing   feeling. And so people love being there and that that what that mean like that state and just, you know, a lot of it is
about one, not just a knowledge based thing, but a but but actually experiencing things. And two, not like a responsibility, like we have to do this, but like actually really loving it and saying, How do I, of one, not just a knowledge based thing but a but a but actually experiencing things and two

How do I live further into this way of being?
to, you know, 'cause 'cause

it is it is a really fantastic feeling. ⁓ yeah.

Sabrina (10:37)
Really? So why is being in nature so helpful for us? Can you explain or share, keeping confidentiality in mind by what you observe and experience people go through during this vision quest and what do you notice people being more empathetic towards each other, compassionate, kinda let go of things? Just wondering, for those who might not be familiar what vision quests are or this journey. What would one expect? 

Eric Inman (11:02)
Yeah, absolutely. ⁓ and a Vision Quest is what a lot of and people have their own names for it. Animus Valley calls it an underworld journey. I gone to a couple Wilderness Guides Council and you know they use the words Vision Quest and everyone kinda you know, writes a passage and everyone has their own language for it, but Vision Quest is a good kind of catch all I think personally. but ⁓ the that type of experience really I mean a lot of this is really about letting go of the ego and its grip on things which is essentially our conscious representation of our individual physical mortal selves right and the balance of the ego is soul which is our connection with everything it it live it goes on beyond time and space and ⁓ yeah it's not just letting go of the ego and its grip on things, which is essentially our conscious representation of our individual physical mortal selves, right? And the balance of the ego is soul, which is our connection with everything. It it live it goes on beyond time and space and yeah, it's not just

Eric Inman (11:59)
connected to this life, but it's connected to all of life. So it's this balance of that. And a lot of the vision quests and a lot of these things are about letting go of that ego. ⁓ a lot of the ceremonies, regardless of the ceremony that you'll hear people people talk about ego death, ⁓ things like that. And so getting into that space and then we connect with the space all around us, right?  and that's tougher to do in our self-created kind of human-made world where we are really a lot of the times disconnected from the ecosystems, from from the other beings, from and essentially from a different part of ourselves, ⁓ that that soul, you know, that place of soul. And we can get there, but it's not the same thing, and I don't know that  we can really stay there in an extended period. Whereas where nature the we the soul really steps forward. That's its home base. You know, I think the ego's home base is in our in our human made worlds. And so we can really stay there in an extended period. Whereas where in nature the ⁓ we the soul really steps forward. That's its home base. You know, I think the ego's home base is in our in our human-made worlds. And so yeah, it just the more time people spend there, they think about things differently, they see things differently, and they just connect to not only the world around them, but this different sense of consciousness  within them. Right. So I was wondering if you could talk about the benefits of psilocybin in the Within them.

Sabrina (13:31)
 I'm trained in ketamine assisted psychotherapy. I heard a lot of research about psilocybin and and the benefits across many symptoms, whether it's depression, addiction. And so I was just wondering if you can touch on your own work through Volve Wild and again, what does it help to treat or what it can people can benefit from?

Eric Inman (13:55)
yeah, that's a it's it's a lot. It's fantastic question. it's really amazing ever since it's been become legal again how many different things psilocybin works on. You mentioned anxiety, depression, grief and loss, trauma, addiction, and a whole lot more. It's really amazing ever since it's been become and  I think well there's there's a there's a couple ways I could go. what it does is essentially it's quiets the default mode network. our typical way of seeing things are our typical thoughts and habits and patterns and a lot of our defense mechanisms and It's essentially it's why it's the default mode never typical way of seeing things or or typical thought.

Eric Inman (14:32)
allows what's going on, you know, back here in the subconscious to come forward because everything else is everything else is quieted down. And with that people can really work on on all these things that are coming up differently. And I think a lot of the the diagnoses, the anxiety or depression, trauma, there's

Sabrina (14:44)
can really work on on all these things that are coming up differently and I think a

Eric Inman (14:57)
Something deeper that's happening in people and it's manifesting in certain ways. It shows up in certain ways for different people. ⁓ but a lot of it is a lot of it the root is really disconnection not only from the natural world, but people's authentic selves. There's something getting in the way of them accessing their true self, whether it's kind of self judgment or

Sabrina (15:02)
manifesting in certain ways, it shows up in certain ways for different people.

connection not only from the natural world but people's authentic selves. There's something getting in the way of them accessing their true self, whether it's self-judgment.

Eric Inman (15:22)
defense mechanisms around safety or trauma, you know ⁓ safety or ⁓ because due to trauma or whatever it is, but people aren't allowing themselves to express themselves freely, and this really allows people to look at what that is and come into a different relationship in a lot of ways. ⁓ part of the research is showing that that there's a lot of neuroplasticity that happens

Sabrina (15:22)
defense mechanisms around safety or trauma, you know that safety or because of due to trauma or whatever it is.

express themselves freely and this really allows people to look at what that is and come into a different relationship in a lot of ways. ⁓ part of the

research is showing that that there's a lot of neuroplasticity that

for weeks after and I think that's similar for most most psychotherapy ⁓ sorry psych what's the word I'm looking for psychedelic psychedelic therapy psychedelic

Eric Inman (15:46)
weeks after and I think that's similar for most ⁓ most psychotherap ⁓ sorry, psych what's the word I'm looking for? Psychedelic Psychedelic therapy, psychedelic treatments.

Sabrina (16:01)
It's just exciting to see in the research how it rewiring or connecting with the neuroplasticity, how it's doing that. ⁓ and helping you reach deeper where I think, our coping mechanisms don't allow us right in our day-to-day to access that. And so I think it's important, to talk about the difference in, how this is actual treatment or intervention versus maybe somebody choosing to

microdose and have their own experiences. So wanting to touch on that too about the importance of how you might guide or create that safety or containment in experience and what that looks like in at Evolve Wild.

Eric Inman (16:36)
so I think microdosing allows people to feel something a little bit and guide them towards what they can feel, right? That's a very vague way of saying it, but it's it's subtle, but there's a different awareness that kind of opens up they open up to. and macrodosing

Sabrina (16:47)
saying it but it's it's subtle but there's a different awareness that kind of opens up they open up too.

And macrodosing.

Eric Inman (16:57)
is is a really powerful experience where ⁓ they where people can oftentimes see what it is behind that guiding what it is that's going on. Like they can s really see the bigger picture of what they

Sabrina (16:58)
really powerful experience where ⁓ they

they can s really see the bigger picture of what

they

Eric Inman (17:13)
what really would create ⁓ powerful healing for them. And I think microdosing works better after a macrodose. As far as what that looks like though, ⁓ there are a few different outcomes from larger doses of mushrooms. And I think a lot of people are familiar with kind of just what I call doing shrooms.

Sabrina (17:13)
what

think I think microdosing works better after a microdose. As far as what that looks like though, there are a few different outcomes

Doses of mushrooms and I think

Eric Inman (17:35)
which is more of a social thing and they'll eat mushrooms and they'll do something social like go to a concert or go to a party and they'll be elevated and it'll be more fun and maybe a little they'll tap into something a little deeper, but it won't be a full on journey. and then there's the two really powerful experiences that people have, which are the bad trip and the mystical experience, right? So that's when

Sabrina (17:39)
something social like go to a concert or go to a party and

And then there's the two really powerful experiences that people have, which are the bad trip and the mystical experience, right? So that's

when

Eric Inman (17:58)
People are really in this ethereal space and things are kind of happening, and the bad trip is when things go wrong, and they don't want to be in that space anymore. And the mystical experience is when everything aligns and they can sit with what comes up and really allow for the journey to unfold in a in a unfettered way, in a in a really free way. So

Sabrina (18:00)
Things are kind of happening.

space anymore and the mystical experience is when everything aligns and they can sit with what comes up and

Eric Inman (18:23)
Yeah, so they so they can experience what what the mushrooms have to say. And I think a lot of the facilitated process is to minimize the risk of that bad trip and help people move into a mystical experience. and that's the the thing when people have that, they report a ton of health benefits from.

Sabrina (18:25)
What with the

is to minimize the

Eric Inman (18:44)
And they rank it as one of the most emotionally or psychologically impactful experiences of their lives up there with you know the birth of a first child or the death of a parent or something like that. Like a it's a real life experience when it happens. and the even the term mystical experience is fairly new to me. ⁓ Animus Valley calls them soul encounters.

Sabrina (18:45)
And they

psychologically impactful experience of their lives up there with

to and the even the term mystical experience is fairly new to me. Animus Valley calls them soul encounters,

⁓ and there's just different kinds of ways of, you know, hallucinations or whatever, you know, there's different kinds of ways of of of describing

Eric Inman (19:07)
⁓ and there's just different kinds of ways of, you know, hallucinations or whatever. You know, there's different kinds of ways of of of describing it,

but the that's what I learned during my mushroom facilitators training here in Oregon. ⁓ the first year it was legal. and the whole process around that is ⁓ essentially the first step is a screening. So we talk with people and make sure there are no

Sabrina (19:27)
up is a screening so we talk with people and make sure

Eric Inman (19:32)
Counterindications, that would lead to a bad experience, specifically schizophrenia or bipolar one. and then also just exploring people's intentions. ⁓ if people just if people don't have a lot of intention around

Sabrina (19:34)
that would lead to a bad experience schizophrenia or

exploring people's intentions. if people just if people don't have

Eric Inman (19:51)
making use of the journey or any self work, there might not be many benefits that come from it if people just aren't into that kind of thing. so that's the mindset piece of it, the set and setting. Usually people who seek out facilitation are ⁓ ready for a little bit more of a powerful experience. ⁓ so step one is the screening.

Sabrina (19:53)
it but there might not be many benefits.

and this the mindset piece of it, the set and setting. Usually people who seek out facilitation are ⁓ ready for a little bit more of a powerful experience. so step one is a

screening, step two is a more in-depth preparation session. meaning people I work

Eric Inman (20:13)
Step two is a more in-depth preparation session. people I work with

have a full preparation form we'll send to people, and it'll take a while to fill out, and we go through that in-depth with people and really get into what may arise on the journey, what people are working through, ⁓ and just help people explore this space a little deeper and help us understand.

Sabrina (20:21)
send to people and it'll take a while to fill out.

Eric Inman (20:37)
why they're coming to us and what kind of work they're trying to move through. after that there's the mushroom day that's a experience in a legal service center, so a place specifically designated for mushroom journeys. with the facilitator there the whole time. We do ⁓ at a ball by group

Sabrina (20:44)
It's a experience in a legal service center, so a place specifically designated for mushroom.

Yeah.

Eric Inman (20:57)
Facilitation and group journeys. ⁓ so the facilitator to journey ratio is usually around three to one. ⁓ sometimes we'll go a little higher if we know people are dealing with very really severe trauma, ⁓ or they want they want the full on higher dose ⁓ required to keep a higher facilitator ratio for that. ⁓ and there's music aligned with the journey to help.

Sabrina (20:58)
facilitation and group journeys. ⁓ so the facilitator journey ratio is usually around three to one. ⁓ sometimes we'll go a little higher if we know people are dealing with really really severe trauma. like that, or they want they want the full on higher dose.

facilitator ratio for that. then there's music aligned with the journey

to help open

Eric Inman (21:24)
open up

to all this. ⁓ I'm sure you're familiar with that then after that is the integration and ⁓ and that's ⁓ in the typical facilitation that's either done over Zoom or in person a few times.

Sabrina (21:28)
Then

is the integration and and that's

facilitation that's either done over Zoom or in person a few times.

Eric Inman (21:42)
With Evolve Wild, we we not only do the online personal preparation, we have a group preparation, and we do an activity the day before the mushroom journey. It's a five-day journey, they're all five-day journeys. a preparate preparation activity, something like paddleboarding or hiking, ⁓ just to allow people that space to move from their everyday life into this journey, connecting connect with nature and kind of

Sabrina (21:43)
With Evolve Wild we we not only

And activity the day

just to allow people that space to move from their everyday life into this journey, connecting connect with nature, and

kind of, you know, just

Eric Inman (22:07)
you know, just prepare last

minute and really step into a different mindset and physical space. ⁓ second day is the mushroom day and then we spend three days afterwards in ⁓ natural environments. And that's when neuroplasticity is really happening. I mean it happen there's a critical period of two weeks, ⁓ which is a big commitment for a lot of people, even even three days, you know, five days is it it can be it can be challenging.

Sabrina (22:12)
set and physical space. second day is the mushroom day and then we spend three days afterwards in natural

is really happening. I mean there have there's a critical period of two weeks, ⁓ which is a big commitment for a lot of people even.

Eric Inman (22:35)
To get people to commit to that. But yeah, we spend that time in nature three days afterwards in nature to allow people to ⁓ create those new neural pathways in a in a really healthy environment, the healthiest environment I can imagine, to unpack what comes up and to allow mystery.

Sabrina (22:37)
spend that time in those three days afterwards in nature to allow people to

Yeah.

Experiment.

Mystery

to speak back because they've stepped into this intentional space and they've asked something of of the universe, of mystery.

Eric Inman (22:55)
To speak back because they've stepped into this intentional space they've asked something of of the universe, of mystery, of whatever

you want call it. And in nature, it has the chance to respond. You know, things do show up, things arise, patterns emerge. I mean, it's really that's that's it's it communicates, I think. ⁓ Yeah. And then there's some

Sabrina (23:05)
You know, things do show up things.

That's its word I communicate, I think.

Definitely. I think the the preparation

is so important 'cause sometimes, you know, people have asked like if they could maybe, you know, just journal or process or talk to you about their microdose experience. And I really think the preparation,

the environment really makes a difference in being able to have that deeper experience and to process things. and then also the after care, the support there, right? Of helping to process or unpack things, having almost a guide there is really helpful as well too, as well as having some exercises and doing that around nature. can imagine is really helpful compared to maybe just

someone trying to do something on their own and connect with a counselor. I think it's the whole you have to do the whole experience to really receive that the benefits from it. Yeah, yeah.

Eric Inman (24:07)
Yeah, yeah. I

people doing it on their own is a it's kind of a crapshoot, you know, you don't know what you're gonna get. And I've a lot of people kinda know that there is a r set and setting element to it, especially if they're doing the macrodose. microdosing you can kinda just do and kinda go about your day maybe in a a little bit more aligned way

I mean you essentially have more agency than the mushrooms and so even if people are microdosing it can feel better but they can also

Sabrina (24:28)
essentially have more agency than the mushrooms and so even if people are microdosing y can feel better but they can also

Eric Inman (24:37)
choose to ignore certain things, you know, that might be I think a lot of people's

Sabrina (24:38)
choose to ignore certain things, you know, that might be I think a lot of people

Eric Inman (24:43)
difficulties a lot of ⁓ not all of them but a lot of it just lives in their everyday choices they've make and they take for granted that aren't aligning with who they are aren't working with them and it's easy to kind of gloss over those bigger things in life on on sub perceptual doses. ⁓ whereas when you're when you're going through a full journey

Sabrina (24:43)
Difficult is

they make and they take for granted that aren't

It's easy to kind of gloss over those bigger things in life.

Subperceptual doses.

Eric Inman (25:09)
That stuff comes up, but also stuff might come up that people aren't prepared for. ⁓ the setting might not be conducive to it at all. ⁓ I mean, that's a real bad trip if people take a macrodose, they're in an ethereal space space, and then something happens in their physical environment that they need to take care of, that they that they have to deal with, but their default mode network is shut down. So they just can't. They can't deal with something that would be far easier in an on

Sabrina (25:10)
Stuff comes up, but also stuff might come up that people aren't prepared for. ⁓ the setting might not be conducive to it at all. ⁓ I mean that's a real bad trip if people take a macro dose, they're in an ethereal space space, and then something happens in their physical environment that they need to take care of, that they that they have to deal with. But their default mood network is shut down, so they just can't. They can't deal with something that would be far easier in an on

Eric Inman (25:38)
unaltered

state, ⁓ and then they say, I want this to stop and it doesn't. ⁓ and then you just that's just having that safe space is half of the journey. But also really having that deeper intention, the music is a is a big thing and there's an arc to the music that aligns with the arc to the journey, ⁓ which opens things up psychologically and and yeah just having that that connection, that time that like

Sabrina (25:39)
state ⁓ and then they say I want this to stop and it doesn't ⁓ and then you you know just having that safe space is half the journey but also really having that deeper the the music is a is a big thing and there's an arc to the music that aligns with the arc to the journey ⁓ which opens things up psychologically and and yeah just having that

that time

delay so much comes up

Eric Inman (26:05)
so much comes up during the mushroom

journey and it just kinda happens boom boom boom boom boom and it's so powerful and you and people think, I'm not gonna forget this and s right after it's kinda gone. Having that space without a schedule or an agenda and just sitting with it and unpacking it and working through it and talking about it and sharing it, anchoring it in language makes it more real, right? ⁓ and it also makes it more memorable. And so

Sabrina (26:08)
And it just kind of happens boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and it's so powerful. And people think, I'm not gonna forget this, and you know it's kinda gone, having that.

schedule or an agenda and just sitting with it and unpack

sharing it, anchoring it in language makes it more real, right? Yes. ⁓ and it also makes it more memorable. And

so, yeah, just having that space to work through everything and to sif just sit with that journey, creates a whole different experience around it and a whole in my opinion, a whole different level of long term integration or help

Eric Inman (26:31)
Yeah, just having that space to work through everything and to sit just sit with that journey ⁓ creates a whole different experience around it and a whole in my opinion, a whole different level of long term integration or help bring it

back into people's lives or their world.

Sabrina (26:51)
There.

Definitely it's a great term of integrating it in that experience, right? And I know you mentioned it takes place over a few weeks, but I definitely think it's worth it for people who might be suffering and going through symptoms. And I talk about, the energy it takes to cope in patterns that might not serve us. And if you invest in yourself and experience those benefits, it's really worth it. And I think a journey like that would definitely be worth it.

worth it for someone who's you know looking for an alternative way to ⁓ to heal and to process things and get that that safe containment and support.

Eric Inman (27:27)
Yeah, a hundred percent. ⁓

Sabrina (27:29)
So ⁓ just wanting to touch on the integration and what that looks like afterwards. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Eric Inman (27:34)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, we have a couple of journeys diff depending on the season. Right now we're in the midst of the Umpqua journey season, which is one day first day hiking Silver Falls in Oregon. It's beautiful little hike with multiple waterfalls. Two streams come together on this series of steps. So you can do a loop and see several different waterfalls and there's waterfalls you can walk behind. ⁓ and then the second day is

Sabrina (27:46)
Beautiful.

streams come together on this series of steps so you can do a loop and see several different waterfalls and there's waterfalls you can walk behind. ⁓ And then the second day

is mushrooms in Salem. My friends gather.

Eric Inman (27:58)
mushrooms in Salem. ⁓ my friends gather. And then

third day is kind of usually the third day people are zonked after a mushroom journey. So it's a day of rest, but it's in the Umqua Valley and there's hot springs and waterfalls and just it's such a magical place. It's between Crater Lake and I five so there's just not a whole lot in there except for this national forest. and then the fourth and fifth day, so fourth day

Sabrina (28:04)
is kind of usually the third day people are stomped after a mushroom journey, so it's a day of rest, but it's in the umkwa.

is such a magical place. It's between Crater Lake and I five so there's just

Eric Inman (28:24)
The night of the third day we camp at the put in for the river. and then the morning of the fourth day after breakfast, we raft down the first half of the river of the North Umqua River, camp halfway, and then the fifth day we raft out. And that's the physical aspect of it. ⁓ and that goes usually until mid July this season with water levels low and we're we're kind of calling it early July.

Sabrina (28:26)
Day we camp

Camp halfway and then the fifth day we wrapped out. That's the physical aspect of it.

Usually until mid July this season with water.

Eric Inman (28:51)
just because of water levels and fire risk. ⁓ and then later in the summer we go to the ⁓ to the Cascade Lake journey, ⁓ which is two days in Portlands. And there's a couple of service centers we work with here in Portlands. the first day is paddling, ⁓ just a paddling activity, either flat water or some easy white water. ⁓

Sabrina (28:56)
to the to the Cascade Lake journey, which is two days in Portland.

Then there's a couple of service centers we work with here in Portland. and the first day is paddling, ⁓ just a paddling activity, either flat water or some easy white water. ⁓

Eric Inman (29:16)
guided ⁓

Sabrina (29:16)
guy

Eric Inman (29:18)
and people get their own lodging the second day is the mushroom journey ⁓ third through fifth day we go to an alpine lake in the in the cascade mountains we have our own private campground and it's each campground is next to each other but you can't really see like they all have space so people can

Sabrina (29:21)
Second day is the mushroom journey.

Every fifth day we go to an album.

Skate Mountains. We have our own private campground and it's each campground is next to each other, but you can't really see like they all have space so people

can do their own processing and just sit with a lot of stuff or they can kind of come and join.

Eric Inman (29:40)
Do their own processing and just sit with a lot of stuff or they can kinda come and join the group

and talk with staff or whatever people need. It's really and and it's on an alpine lake so people can paddleboard out at any time they want. ⁓ and just sit with it. We have yoga. ⁓ one of our facilitators does massage and so if they're on that trip, one of our facilitators does breath work, but really just ⁓ yeah, just ex sitting in that space and allowing things to unfold in its own

Sabrina (29:53)
sit with it. We have yoga. one of our facilitators does massage and so if if they're on that trip one of our facilitators does breath work but really just yeah just ex sitting in that space and allowing things to unto

Eric Inman (30:08)
Why yeah, in this beautiful place.

Sabrina (30:09)
Yeah, this beautiful place. Wow.

That sounds like such an amazing experience to go through and I can imagine people feel like closer and connected to each other as a group too going through that in their week as well.

Eric Inman (30:22)
absolutely. Closer con connected to the group. I mean, yeah, and and to the whole journey into the ⁓ even it's amazing just the difference in dreams that people have when they're outdoors versus indoors. But ⁓ yeah, it's

Sabrina (30:35)
Yeah,

it's

Eric Inman (30:37)
I think people who don't have experience with psychedelics worry about coming into it. How am I gonna do the preparation, right? Like is this a is this safe? Is this and that? And ⁓ I mean it's it's just funny just how much of that anxiety boop just drops away right when they go into the medicine. okay. And then the journey just just happens. ⁓ but sitting with it afterwards is something people don't really take into account coming in.

Sabrina (30:37)
I think people who don't have experience with psychedelics

into it, how am I gonna do preparation right? Like is this a is this safe, is this and that and I mean it's it's just funny just how much of that anxiety

go into the medicine, okay. And then the journey just just happens. but sitting with it afterwards is something people don't really take into account coming

in. it's you don't really know what's gonna happen during the journey, you don't know how it'll unfold.

Eric Inman (31:04)
It's you don't really know what's gonna happen during the journey and you don't know how it'll unfold afterwards,

people don't have experience with this kind of stuff. a lot of times people tell us like, I don't know what I would have done if I didn't if I wasn't doing this journey. ⁓ I mean, I'm I'm glad psychedelics are legal. I think there should be more framework around the integration. I mean, mushrooms and nature just grow so well together.

Sabrina (31:11)
with this kind of stuff. that's a lot of times people tell us like I don't know.

journey. think I mean I'm I'm glad psychedelics are legal. I think there should be more framework around the integration

Just go so well together. ⁓

Eric Inman (31:30)
it it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me not to do without nature, but I've I've done I've

done the mushroom journey in you know, in the space in the in the service centers and they're they're really powerful inward journeys, but just having that space around it to really connect and ⁓ to deepen everything and just to sit with it and unpack it and when I did my journeys indoors afterwards is when I kinda like

Sabrina (31:38)
you know, in the space, in the in the service centers and they're they're really powerful inward journeys but just have

Eric Inman (31:53)
Enjoying it and enjoying the hallucinations and going through things, but like the day after when I'm sitting by a river is when I'm just like bawling. when things really bubble up for me. I know that's not like that for everyone, but I mean there's a lot that that that's still happening, that's still moving through people after the journey.

Sabrina (31:55)
enjoying the hallucinations and going through things, but like the day after when I'm sitting by a river is when I'm just you know, falling.

Still happening, moving.

I think too some people don't like to feel out of control.

Right. And so that could feel uncomfortable or that might bring up some some fears around, not being in control of the journey and what comes up or what happens. And that's where, that process that you provide, the education, the support, explanation, the music, the environment really helps with I think easing people into it and being more comfortable

Eric Inman (32:16)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Sabrina (32:40)
Mm-hmm.

Eric Inman (32:41)
there.

I don't want to lose control. I get that a lot. That's people's number one fear. There's a lot of fears around this. There's a lot of hesitations and barriers. One is the psychological aspects, like do I feel safe doing this? ⁓ two is the comfort with nature. I don't I don't spend time outdoors. I don't ⁓ you know, I don't wanna do

Sabrina (32:51)
and barriers. One is the psychological aspect, like do I feel safe doing this? two is the comfort with nature. I don't I don't spend time outdoors. I don't

Eric Inman (33:04)
Three is ⁓ kind of the difference between a facilitated journey and the cost and the time required for that versus just like eating some mushrooms. I've talked to a lot of people and I myself have done it where I just buy some mushrooms and then I wait for the perfect time. And it never appears. It's really difficult to create that setting on your own.

Sabrina (33:05)
is ⁓ kind of the difference between a facilitated journey

But I think

Just buy some.

and it never appears. It's really difficult to set setting on your

own.

Eric Inman (33:29)
⁓ and and then the mushrooms they lose potency after after a certain amount of time. I mean there's a lot of barriers to it that people are concerned about and that that I don't want to lose control is kind of the the biggest one and I think that's

Sabrina (33:33)
But yeah, I mean there's a lot a lot of barriers to it that people are concerned about and that that I don't wanna lose control is kind of the the biggest one and I think that's

Eric Inman (33:44)
that's kind of what holds people, that's what keeps people stuck in a lot of ways is that they don't they're doing things, they're moving through what they feel like they need to move through and there's something behind everything they're doing that in a way is guiding their life, right? And and they're trying to keep control by doing the things they're doing and keeping in the mind state state they're used to and just

Sabrina (33:45)
that's kind of what holds people, that's what keeps people stuck in a lot of ways is that they they're they're doing things, they're moving through what they feel like they need to move through and there's something behind everything they're doing that in a

And and they're trying to keep control by doing the things they're doing and keeping in the mind state state that they're used to

and just holding on to these patterns but there's also something nudging in them that they know isn't right, that they know

Eric Inman (34:08)
Holding on to these patterns, but there's also something nudging at them that they know isn't right, that they know is not working for them, but they don't want to let that go. And that's what the journey's about, is really about allowing some release and allowing the mushrooms to show people what it needs to show them. And sitting with all that. And it's a challenge, it is a challenge to kind of like step into that space a little bit. Yeah, sitting with all that. And it's a challenge. It is a challenge to kind of like step into that space a little
bit there's a lot of support, we'll help you through the whole process, but it is ultimately up to each person to step into it and to take on the journey themselves. I mean, most of the time to take on the journey yeah I mean most of the time what people are afraid of isn't the real problem. It's just the it's just that fear keeps them from doing it. And that's what it is. It's it's the ego, I the way I see it is that the ego is saying, that's dangerous. That's not my realm. Let's just keep it here.  And that and then people just continue to do what they're gonna do rather than take that step and and let go of a bit of that control.

Sabrina (35:05)
And that then people just continue to do take that step and the education, the support can certainly be helpful, the guidance discussions around it. And it's it's not legal unfortunately in all states and I wish it was to ⁓ support and get the benefits. it's great that you've experienced it as well too. I think that's important as clinicians offering the guidance to ⁓ that experience personally as well. I know It's not always a recommendation or requisite, but I certainly think that's helpful for people too. And just wondering, Eric, where people can reach you for more information or to learn more about your practice at Evolve Wild, if there's a website or if you're on social media. 

Eric Inman (35:50)
yeah. ⁓

EvolveWild dot com is my website's ⁓ social media is a bit restricted. ⁓ Facebook and Instagram won't allow us to talk about psilocybin. They'll take down posts. I've had accounts banned. So YouTube is the platform I've been using. yeah, that's the same thing at Evolve Wild. That's that's where I do most of it.

I do some outreach on LinkedIn. I I'm happy to ⁓ work with other therapists and ⁓ counselors and life coaches. If anyone wants to if anyone has psychedelic integration, they have clients that are interested in this kind of work, I'm happy to give referral commissions and you know  I it's it's when someone comes and they have I'm happy to work with other therapists to if anyone has psychedelic integration they have clients that are interested in this kind of work and you know, I when someone comes and they have someone in their everyday life that they do have this relationship with that they can connect to that can help bring their journey forward and they're in it from before all through it. You know, that's that's a that's a powerful ⁓ That's a powerful figure in the journey,
⁓ to really provide that grounding in everyday life 'cause there's only so much we can do in that regard being here in Oregon. 

Sabrina (37:05)
Thank you so much for your time today though, Eric. And I've learned so much about it. So everyone, if you'd like to learn more about Evolve Wild with Eric Inman, masters of arts and cultural and psychology studies and certificate in echo psychology, so unique and helping with combining the benefits of of nature, psylocibin and helping people go deeper into their journey appreciate your time yeah love to yeah learn more and connect on on YouTube as well. Thanks. 

Eric Inman (37:30)
Thank you so much.
Awesome. Yeah, that'd be great.